tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15275986.post2330441380991864180..comments2023-10-18T09:23:13.050-05:00Comments on QueerToday.com: Ant-Laramie Project Forum: ZZZzzzzzzzzzMark D. Snyderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12508873047127283895noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15275986.post-82824102021670280612007-10-06T12:17:00.000-05:002007-10-06T12:17:00.000-05:001. It was nice to see you , Justin, at the forum :...1. It was nice to see you , Justin, at the forum :) I aree with the point justin made, and I also agree that the word rape should be used more carefully - the reasons have already been expressed by others. No big deal, Let's move on now - together!<BR/><BR/>2. I agree we should keep dialogue open and welcoming to everyone. We should all try not to put words in peoples mouths, and also all try to treat each other with respect. that means less accusing, and assuming, and snarky remarks. <BR/><BR/>3. i think we need to recognize that tone of voice cannot always be heard on a blog and so be careful not to assume someone's intentions or what they meant. using the feedback model helps - when you said, i thought it meant, i feel/could you?Mark D. Snyderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12508873047127283895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15275986.post-62853607351465471992007-10-06T04:22:00.000-05:002007-10-06T04:22:00.000-05:00addressing comments made by justin, kasey, and bec...addressing comments made by justin, kasey, and becca...<BR/><BR/>i want to start this off by stating that i have never been raped, therefore i can not begin to understand what that feels like both physically and psychologically. i also want to say that i very much believe in the power of language, AND i want it to be known that i am most definitely not trying to spark anything more than discussion and not trying to shut people's opinions down, and i think that discussion about language is very important. <BR/><BR/>having stated that, i was there [hi justin! we met at the 'forum' (and i put my own air-quotes up when using the word forum to discuss wednesday night's meeting... by definition a forum is a place for open-discussion, there was no real place for OPEN discussion at this so-called forum) on wednesday] when dr. diggs made these statements, and i took detailed notes. yes, he did twist facts. he even twisted the facts from his own data-collection [to which he gave 'forum' attendees a website to check out, and singled me out personally (by pointing at me only in the crowd and reiterating that i definitely should look at the "facts" on the site)... if you want to check out how obsessed with queer sex these people are and to specifically see dr. diggs data-collection, go to corporateresourcecouncil.org , click white papers, then scroll down to see the health risk of gay sex... the "facts" he quotes in this paper are, in fact, different from the "facts" he quoted at the 'forum'. numbers were twisted, and at points even DOUBLED for the mostly anti-gay audience]... however, i do not find that these statements were anywhere near akin to rape. i personally feel, having heard all of the speakers and their platforms, that all of the speakers were there to validate the feelings of the audience. the audience was there to have their anti-gay sentiments validated. in that particular way, the 'forum' was a success. rape, as kasey stated , is a very specific, painful and violent act. dr. diggs' statements, as painful as it was to listen to "facts" that have been twisted to be used against your own community, were just not comparable to rape. in my own personal opinion, there are never any words that are comparable to the act of rape. using rape as a metaphor lessens the language and definition of what rape actually is. rape, by definition, always involves force. yes, his "facts" were twisted and abused, but as hard as dr. diggs tries, his point of view will not be forced on me, even when he singles me out by finger pointing in an audience of his peers. this is where the importance of language comes in. <BR/><BR/>i feel as though i need to specify that i am not trying to speak for anyone but myself... but i Really do think that we All need to be aware of the language we use, and be aware of the power of language. i am aware that this response is [somewhat/very] rambling, and if anyone would like to talk about in a different forum (one that calls for real open dialogue!) i am very open to discussion on the topic of language in the queer community, if anyone wants to address this.Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375783132611893164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15275986.post-20816701825971964072007-10-06T01:23:00.000-05:002007-10-06T01:23:00.000-05:00Thanks boston bud!Thanks boston bud!Mark D. Snyderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12508873047127283895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15275986.post-12340756970932229642007-10-06T00:50:00.000-05:002007-10-06T00:50:00.000-05:00Kasey my love.There are many ways to seek clarific...Kasey my love.<BR/><BR/>There are many ways to seek clarification.<BR/><BR/>Just as there are many ways we can in fact close down dialogue by putting words in other people's mouths.<BR/><BR/>We've all heard them before. You know, "honey, you're not gay, you're just goign through a phase", "sweetie, you're just a tomboy", "don't call your friend gay, he's just sensitive", and that just around the one issue that most on this blog have grappled with.<BR/><BR/>And no sweets, putting words in somebody else's mouth is not "diplomacy". <BR/><BR/>Complexity, darling, complexity and nuance.<BR/><BR/>And umm, no, I'm not speakign up for Justin, I'm really speaking for how we speak around here. I'm speaking for how we can shut folks down without realizing we're doing it. I am speakign for those of us who get spoken for even when we try to.<BR/><BR/>And if you're wondeirng where the terms of affection come from, I'm a fag.Becca D'Bushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08254846661162356827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15275986.post-2132118199547781962007-10-05T23:28:00.000-05:002007-10-05T23:28:00.000-05:00Becca, if you object to me trying to have an open ...Becca, if you object to me trying to have an open dialogue, then you can just shove it. <BR/><BR/>My guess is that is how you would prefer that I respond to you, since I disagree and you say I "shouldn't hold anyone's hand." I would ask for clarification, and I would give you the benefit of the doubt, but I guess you think that is insulting...and I don't know who held your hand, but no one held mine. And, since Justin is NOT an infant, he doesn't need you standing up for him. If he feels patronized, he can say so. <BR/><BR/>Honestly, I feel crappy writing this. I don't know how I can respond to you without doing so negatively, which is not exactly what either of us want queertoday to be...at least, I hope that's not what you want. I don't want to patronize you by assuming good intentions. I think finding commonality is a key to open discourse, and that clarification is necessary in a forum where we don't have oral/physical cues to the intent of a sentence, but, who knows, I could be wrong. Diplomacy is out of fashion, as our current "President" reminds us.Kasey H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15442470513219062877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15275986.post-26892611077983464672007-10-05T17:40:00.000-05:002007-10-05T17:40:00.000-05:00Queer Today bloggers, thank you for being able to ...Queer Today bloggers, thank you for being able to stomach the hate speech that Massresistance and it's followers spewed forth Wednesday night. Keep up the good work.Boston Budhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03694800029213245507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15275986.post-38082743771612165292007-10-05T14:30:00.000-05:002007-10-05T14:30:00.000-05:00While I may or may not agree wth the sentiment of ...While I may or may not agree wth the sentiment of the comment above, I do object to it's infantalizing of the commentor above it.<BR/><BR/>Critique what you have to, but don't hold anybody's hand, paraphrase what they have to say in language that is "less offensive" and ask if that's what they mean.<BR/><BR/>You're talking to folks who've had that done to them for too damn long.Becca D'Bushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08254846661162356827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15275986.post-15837558399277872352007-10-05T11:06:00.000-05:002007-10-05T11:06:00.000-05:00I appreciate your sentiment that the fact-twisting...I appreciate your sentiment that the fact-twisting was repugnant, I definitely agree. However, I think saying that his hot load of steaming bull is akin to rape is pushing things a bit too far. For some of us rape is not a metaphor, it is a very specific, very painful, very violent act. The comparison comes off as pretty glib and thoughtless to me, something that I don't think that you intended, considering the thoughtful nature of the rest of your comment. Did you mean to say that his statements are not only and insult, they are an insult to your intelligence, and breed hatred on top of all that?Kasey H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15442470513219062877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15275986.post-54297608045919982132007-10-05T04:06:00.000-05:002007-10-05T04:06:00.000-05:00I was wondering about Diggs' comments about transe...I was wondering about Diggs' comments about transexuality too. Nothing he said seemed to be an argument.<BR/><BR/>I was going to say "an argument for why people shouldn't be allowed to have sex changes," but then I realized that the statement is accurate as it stands.<BR/><BR/>Nothing he said was an actual argument. He threw facts from the podium so twisted and abused that they could not be recognized as such. When someone engages in gender-bending it's voluntary. Fact-bending of this nature, however, is akin to rape.<BR/><BR/>Also, I was amused to hear that there is no such thing as a homosexual.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02088437846332952681noreply@blogger.com