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They SHOULD Be Scared!


Whether or not the people inside the so-called "Love Won Out" conference that visited Boston were actually scared of the protest outside is questionable. According to the Article Hate Alliance's over the top coverage of the protest, there was a "near riot" outside. As someone who has been to many demonstrations (a couple where riots did actually take place), I have to just laugh at Article Hate's overactive imagination. But we did, certainly, have an effect on the conference. They sure heard us.

We know at least one person inside was a little frazzled. According to this person, one of our chants "frightened" Alan Chambers, President of Exodus International (who incidentally testified at the Massachusetts State House against same-sex marriage--nope, no politics here). He heard "shut it down" from the crowd and claimed that their "freedom of speech and religion" was at stake! And I have one message for Chambers and everyone else on the Christian Right: There's more where that came from!

We will neither mince words nor obfuscate the fact that Love Won Out and "ex-gay" groups are a part of the Christian Right, an insidious political machine that reinforces the dominance of right-wing politics in American society. The leaders of this conference have gone through backflips to try to explain away their politics. But it's kind of hard to say, "Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain" (i.e. James Dobson) when the leaders of this conference are up to their eyeballs in Focus on the Family money and support--which no doubt provided the emergency bag lunches. It's hard to say they're just "helping" unhappy gay people when their leaders testify in state houses and on Capitol Hill against civil rights. It's kind of hard to say, "We're not political," when they have workshops on stopping same-sex marriage and anti-bullying/harrassment programs in public schools. And it's hard to say all of this when they are presenting the false of queer people as sick, pathological, diseased, and unhappy.

With the Bush Administration's poll numbers in the gutter and Americans turning against the war in Iraq, the American Right should be scared. People are mad as hell and they're beginning to stand up. They're standing up to military recruiters on our campuses and in our high schools. They're standing up to anti-abortion fanatics. And they're standing up to anti-gay bigots. The days of attacking American Girl, Spongebob Squarepants and Letters from Buster are almost over. The twighlight of the Right's twenty-five year reign of terror is quickly approaching. This protest is probably the largest confrontation LWO has experienced, and hopefully our example will inspire others to take similar stands against them.

We will continue to hold homophobes accountable for their actions, regardless of what kind of sugary, sing-songy voices they say "God loves you" in. Yes, God loves us, but they don't. Love isn't about what you say. Love means justice. Using the State to punish gay and lesbian people for not conforming to their Neo-Victorian values is not justice. Spreading lies so that people will see queer people as sick is not justice.

60 comments:

Alan Chambers said...

I am thankful that you are at least honest about your intolerance and hatred for those of us with differing opinions. Those of us who spoke at the Love Won Out Conference certainly weren't advocating for the silencing of your right to protest or to share your thoughts. Your desire to "shut us down" is the ultimate example of hypocrisy.

Anonymous said...

Alan, it seems that you don't always tell the truth or are duped into believing everything you read. Just a quick glance on your website I can see that you write about a man who took two wives. This story is untrue, however, you jumped on the bandwagon believing because you are against same sex couples marrying. (I can only imagine what kind of shame marriage you have with your "wife".

Anonymous said...

Who's intolerant and hateful? I will say one thing, Alan, you sure have mastered your doublespeak. The only reason why "ex-gay" ministries exist in the first place is so that when the religious right is using their political muscle to legally oppress us, it won't so bad because, "hey, they can change, right?"

I dare say, you might have more credibility if Exodus International was merely laboring on its own and was apolitical. I would still disagree with you, but then you might actually be able to say you are just trying to "help" those who want to "leave" homosexuality. But you are so deeply in bed with people who want to shove queers back into the closet, both politically and socially, that it is hard to tell where the "ministry" ends and the hateful politics begin. Therefore, you will be treated as one in the same. But more importantly, queer people don't need your help or ministries. We are fine just the way we are, thank you.

Ultimately though, you are hurting people. Your program doesn't work, which is why you don't keep reliable statistics. Every major social science organization has denounced conversion therapy. The so-called "study" done by Robert Spitzer that ex-gays and their allies point to is a shotty unscientific piece of trash. The only thing these programs do is make people even more conflicted about who they are.

But I am here to spread the good word: You don't HAVE to be an ex-gay. There are people AND faith expressions who will love you and support you for who you are. There are plenty of ex ex gays. You don't have to go through life fighting yourself each day because you are attracted to the same gender. Despite what you think, our actions on Saturday were motivated by love: love for ourselves, and love for other LGBT people, especially those who've been made to think they are unlovable.

Anonymous said...

I think Alan has a good point. How can you say you believe in freedom of speech when you won't allow a differing opinion? I believe God can change lives. That is my opinion. Feel free to disagree but don't get in my face about it.

Anonymous said...

Homosexuality is an abomination and as the Bible says, homosexuals WILL NOT enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Seek God and turn away from the unnatural lifestyle of homosexuality. Remember it IS a choice.

the Sub said...

What I read reminds me of the scene in Sodom in Genesis. It's so predictable what the gays will do. They hate themselves and so they screech at those who try to help the poor souls caught in homosexuality. But Jesus said it would be like this in the last days. The signs are here and the "Judge is standing at the door."

Anonymous said...

Brian, we are not scared of you or your goons. You seem to forget that 11 states had same sex marriage amendments and all 11 passed. So no, you are not taking over anything. Homosexuality is unnatural and unclean and leads to diseases and death. We on the Christian Right have God on our side in this matter. God doesn't hate homosexuals, He just dislikes the acts committed in a homosexual relationship. Read the Bible and you will understand that it will not be tolerated. Man shall not lie down with man. What part of shall not do you not understand? Just because you protest doesn't mean God will change His mind.

Chas-trate said...

This is in response to Alan Chambers and the last comment posted. If differing opinions were all that was being presented by "Love Won Out" we wouldn't have been waving our signs at the door Mr. Chambers (well that may not be true but that's beside the point). Love Won Out is presenting its opinion as science, science without significant statistical numbers, without peer review, without falsification and without replication. So your saying pretty much whatever bull**** you can get away with saying as long as people don't look too closely to your most interesting definition of science.

You can only live in your little fantasy land chanting "I don't believe in fairies" for so long, eventually you'll have to Wake Up!

Brian Rainey said...

To Chambers:
We take the POLITICAL violence (delegitimization, discrimination) that results from anti-gay rhetoric very seriously, and the LGBT community and its allies WILL take action against it, period. What you are doing is political--it will receive a political response. To reduce what is going on here to some fuzzy "difference of opinion" is disingenuous. You know full well that what is at stake here is the status of LGBT people in American society. In fact, what is at stake is more than that. It is whether or not people will stand up to a cabal of right-wing fanatics determined to bring America back to the 19th century.

The Christian Right has access to the highest corridors of power in this country and you will NOT be allowed to spin yourself into some kind of oppressed group.

To those screeching "free-speech": I will never be a part of a group that asks the State to punish homophobes for their speech--unlike you who wants to use the State to punish gay and lesbian people for being gay. This has nothing to do with the first amendment. The crowd outside was not asking the State to "shut LWO down;" we were demanding that LWO "shut it down." We knew you weren't going to do that--and empowering people to have the confidence to take action and demand it. But we were making a moral and political demand, not a demand of the State.

To the Bible thumpers: The comment about the "last days" is instructive. This kind of apocalyptic talk is just the thing designed to keep the American people bogged down in backwards theology so they don't worry about real issues (the war, economy, wages, etc.)

For your information, I have read the bible. I have studied Hebrew for five years and had one year of Greek. I have read Lev. 18:22; 20:13 (the poster didn't even bother to cite the passages) a zillion times. I wrote a paper on Rabbinic exegesis of the verse. It does not say, "Man shall not lie down with man." Actually look the passage up and you'll see it says something different. Indeed, the very fact that the verse DOESN'T say it as simply as you deceptively put it probably means that that is NOT the idea the writer wants to convey.

the Sub said...

Brian,

The Bible is clear about homosexuality, fornication, lying, cheating, etc. Romans 1:25-27, Jude 7, among others, is very to the point. As a Christian I don't like to see perversion appluded nor forced down our throats as something wholesome. Naturally the perverts take offense to that. That's why I'm so reminded about Sodom. Nothing ever changes, except that now and again a few manage to escape their bondage to whatever sin consumes them. Remember, though, Jesus the second time around has "eyes like blazing fire..." as "he treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty." (Revelation chapter 19, in case your interested.) So do your fist shaking while there is still time.

Wes said...

Mark,

Great event. Although I didn't make it I can certainly explain that your message was heard loud and clear in the news circulated around the state house.

It's about time someone opened up the gay community's mind to the horrors of the ex-gay movement.

Reminds me of the good ol days of the church protest.

Rocky said...

Don't you heterophobic anti-Christian bigots have a life? No wonder Democrats can't win elections anymore!

Whatever happened to freedom of religion? Are you against the First Amendment?

YOU CAN NOT BE CHRISTIAN AND GAY!

Anonymous said...

My heart really goes out to those who think that everyone is out to get them. Those of us affiliated with an ex-gay ministry CHOOSE to be involved. If you are happy and homosexual, it's between you and God. For those who are NOT satisfied with the quality of life that homosexuality offers, there is an alternative. Isn't that what the "left" preaches? Freedom to choose. I choose to support the homosexuals RIGHT to change if they so choose. Trying to pretend that ex-gays don't have the right to express themselves amounts to a hate crime. In America-all men are still equal.

Rocky said...

If anyone is scared, it's there heterophobes and the supporters of the homosexual agenda! They are scared of the First Amendment and Freedom of Religion! Bravo to Focus on the Family and Love Won Out! And shame to the anti-Christian left and the bigot Democrats!

Anonymous said...

Why do you think that terrorist methods will gain you friends? Your intolerance of opposing views speaks volumes about your character.

Brian Rainey said...

"Why do you think that terrorist methods will gain you friends?"

Right. Protest = terrorism. And they have the NERVE to talk about "free speech."

Rocky said...

How's that heterophobia, unpatriotic homofascists? Keep it up and Democrats will keep losing seats!

Rocky said...

I wonder if you anti-Christian heterophobes were cheering when those three Indonesian teenage girls were beheaded just for being Christian!

Anonymous said...

...........QUEERTODAY.............

Meet the new Kids on the block!

http://protestwarrior.com

Next time we will be staging Protesting YOU!

PROTEST WARRIOR
http://protestwarrior.com

WE WILL BE PROTESTING YOU NEXT TIME

Anonymous said...

Mark Snyder is this you?

http://www.baywindows.com/media/paper328/news/2005/10/27/News/Preparing.For.The.ExGays-1035234.shtml

I think you are the hate group!

Can Mark be a little tolerant
of Ex Gays.

I am Jewish and I am a former
homosexual!

David

Anonymous said...

George Weinberg invented Homophobia!

Activist George Weinberg is the psychologist who invented

"Homophobia"

George Weinberg, an American psychologist who has long been a friend of the LGBT community, regularly attended meetings of a group in New York City called the Gay Activists Alliance (GAA).

Watching their struggle for appropriate, arresting soundbites and the media responses, he came up with the word that the GAA had been struggling for: "homophobia," derived from Greek words meaning "the same" and "fear," and meaning the irrational fear of loving someone of the same sex. This new word first appeared in book form in 1972 in his work Society and the Healthy Homosexual.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/g/ge/george_weinberg.htm

Anonymous said...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. (Amendment 1)

What About these Rights?

Where does it say Gay Rights?

http://www.counterprotest.net/

kenny said...

I have read through the comments posted. What deeply hurts is the comments made by some christians and some made by some of the gay people out there.
First...let's just say that each of us has the right to choose how we live. I lived with my ex partner for 8 years, we lived common law, had wills and had to claim taxes...and until last year, we could have gotten married in a church, but we could have had a committment ceremony years ago.
I chose to walk away from that. As hard as it was, that was my choice. I was not happy. I knew there had to be more to life than this. I had lots of gay friends and still do, who supported me in walking out of the lifestyle. One of my friends even said that I would never find man who would meet my emotional needs as much as a woman will. He was speaking from experience. I have walked both sides of the fence. One being a very out there gay man and now a man who is walking out of the lifesytle. What brought me to this point? It wasn't the "ex gay ministries" or people, it was by God's love. He shone very brightly into my life and I accepted his invitation to something different. So now I walk the path that few people choose to walk. It is the one less traveled. But I walk it with confidence and with much humility. Recognizing the fact that we are all broken people. We all have hurts and pains. We have an innate desire in us to connect to someone greater than us. So with that I chose to embrace my spiritual side and listen to God. Maybe he speaks to me differently, but that is my walk...and to each their own. I sit and listen to his voice and his direction.
Secondly...We all have the right to speak and to live. We all have the right to either stay in the gay lifestyle or leave it. No one pressured me. I made this decision on my own. The gay movement and the christian right movement are surprizingly the same. Each group seems to have an agenda. Each is hoping to make the other group understand. Why can't we understand that if you want to live in a gay relationship so be it. But don't force it on anyone. They will make up their minds on their own. But I do believe that people who are struggling with their identity have the right to understand the other option. There is an option to walk out of homosexuality or to never enter the lifestyle. Don't silence that voice. So when you want to have people speak out in schools on embracing the gay lifestyle, then you need to allow the ex gay ministries in too. To give their opinion as well. I was heavily involved in EGALE and so I understand both sides, you cannot allow one group in and not allow the other. No one should be forced to just hear one side of the issue. If I would have heard years ago that I could change, do you know, I would have done everything in my power to do so. That is just me!
We talk about bullying, harrassment and tolerance and homophobia...what is that? What do you call gay people who bash those who want to leave the lifestyle...? Some of my so called friends fired on the nastiest emails to me...saying, I am gay and that I can't change. Well...I have. Does this mean I never struggle with my identity? I do. But it is not a gay identity that I struggle with. I struggle with life issues. I struggle with loving my neighbour, having good thoughts, treating others how I would like to be treated. Let's face it folks, we are not here on this earth a long time. Whether you believe in heaven or hell or whatever...anyone of us can be gone tomorrow. Why not start loving each other. Why protest each other, why spew hatred. I have had the opportunity to go to a love won out conference, and I cried when people stood up and repented on how they treated those struggling with homosexuality. Because I hated those christians. There never one word against those protesting outside...but I heard lots of talk about loving those people living in the lifestyle and living a life of love instead of judgement. It was actually quite healing for me. So for those who protest love won out conferences...I ask, instead of yelling and protesting, why not understand those inside. Understanding that they are not against you, rather they are supporting those who want to change. It is their right.
I just see so much hatred in the world and I guess, that makes me sad. It hurts deep down. What I would like is a perfect world, and that is not going to happen in our lifetime or anyones. We live in a very fallen state. Fighting against each other instead of loving each other and understanding that we are all here together.
So we can talk about who is the hate group and we can spew out scripture and we can bash those in the lifestyle and those who want to leave. Where will that get us? Let's think with not just our heads, but our hearts.
Bless each of you who read this. To each of you I hope and pray that your hearts are softened, that your minds are renewed and that you hear that still soft voice of love, calling from the wilderness.

Anonymous said...

Shalom
"Brian Rainey"

(For your information, I have read the bible. I have studied Hebrew for five years and had one year of Greek. I have read Lev. 18:22; 20:13 (the poster didn't even bother to cite the passages) a zillion times. I wrote a paper on Rabbinic exegesis of the verse. It does not say, "Man shall not lie down with man." Actually look the passage up and you'll see it says something different. Indeed, the very fact that the verse DOESN'T say it as simply as you deceptively put it probably means that that is NOT the idea the writer wants to convey.

Many people have studied hebrew,
I am a hassidic Jew, lived in Isreal and know the Torah.

I am also a student of hebrew at Columbia Univeristy and the old testament is clear with regards same sex interaction.

Its wrong not because of culture
but because Yahweh, said it was!

No liberal student at Harvard can get away from that truth!

But good luck with the studies!

Just be tolerant of my religions texts. and traditions.

There are no "Ex Torah scripture's"

Boker tov

Anonymous said...

It is sad to me that we as Christians have failed so much, so often to show others, not just homosexuals, the love of Jesus. To all those caught up in the homosexual lifestyle: To be truly Christian is not to hate the people who practise homosexuality. It is to lovingly, frankly point people to Jesus, Who loves them so much He died on the cross so that their sins (homosexual acts and everything else) were paid for. To show and tell them that because Jesus paid the price for their sins that they have the option to live a life free from sin. Yes, homosexuality is sin, but it is God's kindness that leads people to repentance, not anger. There are those who are so deeply in sin they hear what the spirit of deception tells them to hear. Those folks, too, need Jesus. Homosexual activists such as were at the Boston event need to realize that they are not doing themselves any favors by acting so ugly.

Anonymous said...

You know I have always wanted to have "my" say too on these issues, however as a christian I should yield to Gods will for my speach ,after that's; in my estimation , what life is all about:to chouse. Gods will or our own.Why god chouse any particular sin to be a "worse" sin than any other is somewhat of a mystery until you take in account the product of partaking in thouse sins. Now before you get into the argument of "God made me this way...", I ask you to put it aside for a moment. For my sins are in my mind "worse" then homosexuality so I hve no position of arrogance.Also I need to say to all that God never promised His kids any nation except Israel, In fact He promised : "all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persucution...". Does this mean we sit iddely by while the nation goes to hell Literaly? cirtantly not. do we then lobby ellect and protest in the streets? nope again. Then what shall we do then? We shal live for Christ and BE His lights in a dark world and love others as ourselves being ready in season and out of season to give an answer to everyone who asks about the Hope we have "in" us.And what about "our " free speech and religion; well, soon we will have to chouse to obey God or man.As for "making" homosexuals or legislating morality for that sake then that is not our job.protecting our children from them is however.but dont take my word for it ask god to revel it to you through His word with an open mind and heart.I dont speak with a "sing-songy" voice and am glad God is not a god of pretentious people. Just be who you are and speak straight (no pun intended). To gay people I say this : if your way is so "free" then why are you so violent? If you dont like what we say then dont listen and if a "christian" trys to "shove" their christanity down your throat call them on it and tell them to shut up. Also allow us the same freedom O.K.???Any way 2006 promises to be and interesting year especially 6/1/2006-6/11/2006 (the year of the "beast"). If you have any inkling to repent then, by all means do it now because in the coming year(s) it will be very difficult at best.- Jesus coming sooooon.

Mark D. Snyder said...

Pro-gay bible quotes series. #1

"Some men are born eunuchs from
their mother's womb, and some have been made eunuchs by men, and some
have become eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven." – Matthew
19:12

Anonymous said...

LOOK HOMOPHOBE'S

We will not tolerate Hate,
You will be silenced!

Hate is not allowed in the USA.

EX GAY is a Hate Group and we will close it down!

Mark,

Boston

A Mom said...

KENNY STATED: "but I heard lots of talk about loving those people living in the lifestyle and living a life of love instead of judgement. It was actually quite healing for me."

Very kumbaya and sweet but about the most sanctimonious blah blah crap I have ever read. sorry. I'm the lesbo Mom living in a birth family that is shoveling their money into the cult called focus on freakin' screwing over the family including teenagers trying to atualize. In case it escaped your entire attention as a teenager buddy heteros were the normative and normative being the omnipresent majority doesn't need much to preach the joys of assimiliation. in my family I am watching frenzied out of control parents practice quack pseudo science on my nephew as they apply the boot of their shoe and their incessant mouths and mind control to shove him as deep into the closet as possible. maybe if they are lucky he'll marry some girl to make the pro-suicidal focus people happy, make her life miserable, create progeny just for focus on the miserable, and then finally actualize and divorce thereby creating a train wreck of lives behind him. these focus parents are so cult driven, loner victims that they have to band together in these bible cults otherwise the parents would blow their brains out from the oh horrors, stigmatization of johnny not fitting in, at school or church, or you know bible studies. add to my family a gender dysphoric since birth niece, that surprise! the focus on screwing over people also think their quack science will save the day, and now you have a FtoM that is being held down and dressed and followed around on 24 hour patrol. oh year I'm all fuzzy with the lack of judgment buddy.
I'm the enemy and i'm the assimiliated country Mom and the super aunt and the girl scout leader and the, volunteer, yeah, want to report me for being a great Mom? My kids are not depressed, under mind control, and sleeping away their depression. and your lovely sweet soft cuddly focus on screwing the family group dictates to the cult members in their family that their gay children not be around me as they stick the finger in the dam of their denial and create CHILD ABUSE in the process. CHILD ABUSE. plain and simple. Enough with your "lifestyle" crap. I don't live the lifestyle buddy. I don't live it. I never have. I can't walk out of my skin, so I guess I will have to just settle for continuing to be a mother, friend, volunteer, activist, AND lesbian. And the focus love Will Poison out members of my family will continue to ostracize me for living my truth. My children could explain it better to the CHILD ABUSER, Mr. Dobson, than I could. My children are without judgment, not the cults that you mention. The members of my families involved in these cults have created nothing but pain and suffering for all members of the family, most of all the gay and transgendered teenage children at risk for suicide, the antithesis of the "healing" that you wax about. If people are going to join cults, then why do they freakin' have children? If people cannot accept the idea of loving their progeny as they are formed, or present, or grow, when why the hell do they propogage in the first place? Why? Child Hate. So sad.
A Mom.

Chas-trate said...

Kenny

Having other options is fine, we are not against that or at least I'm not. But first try and figure out why you need those options. Really weigh whether the problem is being gay or is it the particular community you live in or your own biases of that community, influence from family members. I mean there are plenty of things I can say that are negative about the gay community...but then I can say that about all the communities I fit into, it doesn't mean that those lifestyles are necessarily wrong. Understanding what impacts them requires a holistic (not in the metaphysical sense) approach to looking at things, think systems theory. Everything is interconnected which is why it is so complex. In order to get sense of the bigger picture as far as influences you have to understand what the inputs are versus outputs and how those influence each other…so on and so forth. There are whole dissertations written about this so I’m not going to pursue it further

As for groups like Love Won Out, The problem we have with them are their political affiliations to groups like Focus on the Family and other Christian right groups and their strategic coordination with them to use lies and deception to force their ideology upon us.

They say they have science to back them or the bible. Well science requires peer review and the possibility of their hypothesis being false, (They need to actually pursue falsifying their hypothesis) this is something they haven't done with their research. That’s not to say that peer reviewing doesn’t have biases either but by having other people examine their work, challenging their methodology, their data, their logic in interpreting that data and providing suggestions, we are able to move closer to the truth.

As for the bible, well it's a piece of literature that is not only political (I mean used from the very beginning as a political tool which most theologians agree with) it doesn’t really provide a good methodology for determining truth. This is why most theologians pursue science, philosophy, and logic and hell there could be others but these are the only ones I’m familiar with and once again they have to provide evidence and arguments that are then peer reviewed and I already explained that whole process earlier.

If Love Won Out really wants to prove its theories it needs to go through those processes to do it. Otherwise, they are simply a political group using opinions disguised as pseudo-science or pseudo-logic that really are meant to do nothing but keep people in the dark.

Anonymous said...

I was molested as a boy. Naturally sex with another male would seem normal and/or exciting. I can't erase those memories. I wonder why gays are always trying to get it on with new partners? Is this like the more the merrier or something? My boss is gay and he won't leave me alone. What is up with that? Why do gays always want to IM me on paltalk? My nick name isn't fresh meat but it might as well be. Gays just wanna have sex with as many guys as possible in as short a time as possible. Most gay guys would rather give it than receive it. Why is that? Ok so I am a bigot homophobe because I typed all this truth that must never be uttered. When was the last time a gay guy was attacked by red necks? Gay guys definitely would have attacked non-gays today. How is that cool? Gays are allowed to be bigots. They are not required to follow the norms of behavior. Perhaps it is the narcissism so common among gay guys that makes them think they are above the rules of civil behavior. All you totally gorgeous gay guys out there, you know who you are! I will remain anonymous after seeing the rabid hypocrites today.

Anonymous said...

1. QueerToday committed no crimes, no acts of violence on Oct. 29th.
2. How do you know most gay guys prefer to be tops? Did you do your own umm scientific study?
3. Gay people are attacked every day in violent hate crimes, you only need to read the gay news at 365gay.com to see how many queer people especially trans folks are murdered everyday.

conserativeguy101 said...

why would you protest a focus on the family confernce ? and say "shut it down" .do focus on the family not have the freedom of assembly to hold a changeing homosexuality thru christ confence the same way gays can have freedom of assebly ? Why try to take their right to meet & speak away?

it's freedomof speech & assemble.

Anonymous said...

It was a protest... do you not know what a protest is? DUH

rocky said...

You heterophobes are like the Taliban! You want to get rid of all things Christian and you protest against American soldiers who fight so you can have the right to peddle the homosexual/anti-Christian propaganda machine!

Anonymous said...

I am a 23, queer and a communist in Boston.

I was at the protest and you all should be scared.

We came over from the anti war rally!

We will shut down hate church's if they attack gay people!

We will make sure you live in total fear!


Fuck all ex gays,

Fuck Protest Warriors,

Fuck Bush,

Fuck the troops

Fuck God!

and Fuck America

Religion is a threat and must GO!

Right Wing Religions are not welcomed in Boston and will not be tolerated!

Thats right hate will not be tolerated!

"To all you Christian psychopaths"

......Shut the Fuck up!

James

the Sub said...

"Hate will not be tolerated!" And then you rage with hate. It's funny and sad, and shows who you are. Fear you? No, pray that you see the Truth. Fear Him who can send you to hell. That's who you need to fear.

Anonymous said...

Anyone see bay windows terrible coverage today? YUCK!

Rocky said...

Hey James, if you think America is so bad, move to Cuba! I'm sure Castro and his Havana goons will support your atheism and America-hating!

If one of you heterophobes tried to protest against my church, I would personally kick your asses, bigots!

Anonymous said...

um...obviously James is a right-winger who is posing as an activist.

Anonymous said...

Can we elevate these discussions into something more thoughtful folks? The name calling and silly arguments are not helping anyone.

kenny said...

In my defense...to the "lesbo mom" as she called herself. I did not want my comment to be kumbayaish. Rather I wanted to speak out in love rather than with the hatred that I am reading on the site. Again, to you, where does that leave us? Do you realize that you are someone I would probably be a friend to. Sure we differ in our beliefs...that is it.
I do not know everything about Focus on the Family, but the beliefs that they hold are theirs. How many times do we as a society as a whole, try and shut or protest actual cults? Not very often. We allow them to go about their lives and live it peacefully, even though they take advantage of the poor, the lonely and those who are searching for something with more meaning, than how they are living. But I won't go there.
Focus on the family is not a cult. Do your research. Read!
To those who comment that Focus on the family focus' on the scientific element...and they have not given their material out for peer review...uhm, ask them to send it to you to review. I would assume they have documented information that you could access. In terms of those pro-gay theologians or scientists...read their articles too. Read it and see if they have been able to formulate a solid case on being born gay. They have not. There is no piece of literature that supports that theory inclusive. So before we all go crazy with insults and inuendo's, let's read. Let's dialogue in a peaceful way. I do not hate those who are gay. Having lived as a gay man and walked the walk and talked the talk, I see your point. I see the hurts and the fear and the anger. I lived it. I hated all christians, did not want anything to do with them. Things changed, was it Christians that changed my heart...no, it was the amazing love of God that did. He penetrated into my heart.
Those who say that Christians will pay, that they should fear? Why? They are no different than you. If they are being rude and insulting...yes, they should be called on that. If they spew hatred then they should be called on that. But if a Christian supports others who want to leave the gay lifestyle then so be it.
I AM HAPPY!!!! If I could be on TV and shout this out, I would. I love my life. I love being who I am. I love the fact that God walks with me in this very dark world. That he has redeemed my life. That through my weakness, he makes me strong. Again, I am not brainwashed by people, I am not judging you or others, I just want the same freedom as you. I want to be able to choose how I want to live. Churches who focus on family should be applauded. They just want to raise good kids. What harm is that. There is a harm if they spew out hatred and I have yet to hear that. If I did, I would stand up and talk...hold them accountable to what they say. Do they have to agree on whether homosexuality is right? No! It is their spiritual belief that says that Homosexuality is a sin. So is gossip, lieing, cheating, adulterous affairs and the list goes on. Does that give them the right to hate gay people....NO....NO....NO! If someone does, they are a hypocrite and not walking in the grace and mercy that Christ gives so freely.
So there is my rant for the evening. To MOM, I commend you on your love for your children. I commend you on your heart. Please don't hate me for choosing something different.

A Mom said...

Hey Kenny

We are NOT talking about YOUR right to choose your path darlin'. we are talking about CHILD ABUSE. Are you clear on this little side discussion? We are talking about one child waking up daily and wanting to be the other sex (she was born either inter-sex or gender variant, the parents hide this, there is no medical care, the child is forced dressed as a teenager, what does that sound like to you? Maybe you like the idea? and the other child attempting to self actualize gay. That loving family? Of cours they are saying no, no, no, teenagers, in that loving bibilical embrace that you are talking about. The children are depressed, suicidal, and to top it off, despite going though "aversion" therapy, 24/7 surviellance, being pulled out of every social after school group in which they would be around "those kind of people" (what does that mean exactly when spoken by focus on the furious???), having their phones pulled, having their computers turned off, so they are 100 percent isolated, they still make attempts to be thier gay little non-comforming selves. It is a matter of a few years and months before they walk away from this disfunction. If they do not harm themselves in the process of treading water. Child abuse. Mind Control. Cult. The disuasion of a teenage child's reality. Do the words American Pediatric Society ring a bell? Oh that's right that would be mainstream. Prisoner in one's own home. Parents running from their own shame, focus's science from the 7-11 "blaming" the parents for the actions of their two kids since birth. The Minneapolis report stating such. I'm surprised that with all the words that are traded on this site, that more isn't said about the child abuse practices of the owners of this cult and and the desparately ill informed frightened backwards parents who drag their children to their unlicensed, uncertified, quack practitioners so that they can be averted away from their actualization and towards suicide. Take care of these two children for an evening buddy, because remember I can't? I'm lesbian, but you can "pray" with them through their depression. THey are praying also. They are praying for parents who don't need a cult to accept them exactly as they were made in god's eyes. gay and beautiful. Some people are not cut out to parents. Again, some people should not procreate if the idea of parenting a LGBT child forces them to abuse them.
to use your words LGBT parents who focus on family should be applauded! They just want to raise good kids? What's wrong with that? The good news! Their kids are accepted as they come! In all their normative or not so normative, in your luvin eyes, beauty! These children can't jump out of the car so as to "avert" therapy. They can't walk miles to put themselves back in their activities. They have been isolated from most to all peer groups except focus. But should I scream as you do THEY'RE HAPPY!!! How about some smiley faces. My kids really loves those. :)
Sorry, they are not. This entire family is grieving for them and the aboslutely mental state that their parents are in with agitation. The children look horrendous. It's funny how a parent can feel their control slipping away...the problem is that so many children lose the battle to depression and suicide during the child abuse. Mom, I'm gay. Dad, I'm gay. Now, what's for lunch.
Get over it Kenny. And we are happy that you are so happy. good for you. These two kids are not. And Focus on the Child Abuse will be held accountable for dispensing it's KKK version of tar and feather the child with isolation til they break. take the broken parts and put them in a heterosexual jar. stir. hope for the best. because anything is better than gay, right Kenny? even broken children.
So sad.
A Mom

Anonymous said...

Here's a thought to chew on...if you're a Christian and you believe firmly that the Bible speaks on a topic and it's clear on that topic...you are a bigot.

If you're a homosexual and you believe that the Bible (or the media, or whatever) speaks on a topic and it's clear on that topic...you are tolerant.

Why is that? I think it's part of the psychological warfare against Christianity. If you can make the Christians at least SOUND like they're something that they aren't, then they won't want to be associated with that something. Unless, of course, you're thick-skinned like myself.

I went outside to meet some of the protesters. I talked to Mark, Wayne, Carlos, and Jesse, to name a few - and I believe only one of them had the courage to actually shake my hand when I smiled and said hello. I believe I even commended Mark for putting together the protest.

Up until the anti-war protest joined in out front, it was obvious that there were about 50 very loud and angry homosexuals outside and there were about 500 (or more) very loving and tolerant Christians inside. I think what Mark and the rest fail to recognize is that they are calling love (seeking to restore people to a right relationship with God) hate - because to say that they can change is anathema to them. If they could possibly change, then their fight for "rights" isn't really a fight for rights, it's a demand that we tolerate their intolerant views towards the rest of society.

What one person calls love and tolerance, another calls hate and bigotry. Both sides have been known to lob those bombs over the fence. I see it on this blog.

To those of you that are homosexuals - you CAN change and be set free from the treadmill of trying to impress people with your looks.

To those of you that are intolerant - you CAN change and be set free from the treadmill of trying to squash another person's views.

To those of you that are showing the light and life of Christ to a dark world - keep up the good work! The Lord will reward you for your patient endurance!

Blessings in Christ,

Tyler

A mom said...

Tyler,
How about talking about kids and queerness? Have you ever taken care of a gender variant child? This girl has been variant, since, uh birth. Children don't know from looks or from agendas 3. they don't know from hate or planks. So if these two children were yours, one was cross dressing since about age 2 despite the punishment, threats, and the other child was a raging fairy since about 3, how would you parent? THey are teenagers now. and they have outed to their parents. the parents went running to your group. instituted your salvation ways. the kids now? And now they are suicidal and depressed and teetering on madness from the isolation and aversion techniques of your group. These are children. They have no agenda. And still they persist in whatever way possible to be themselves. at allowed family gatherings I look on. No matter what the family does 24/7 there they still are, in all their beauty. the boy crocheting pink blankets for everyone with grandma's knitting basket, and the girl taking barber scissors to her hair quietly behind the forest with the uncle's shears. oops 24/7 surveillance let down.
I think it helps put all you guys, and your "adult" arguments in perspective. What will be will be. the problem is, when people such as yourself, are presented with babes in arms, and they don't conform. and these two havent's since toddlerhood. makes all your prosthletizing seems so simple minded. and you know what, I agree with you. Adults should be left alone to themselves in whatever types of associations that they want. You will hear my voice loud and clear here, because I speak for the children that are hurt. For those looking for an efficacious way to feel better about this. THere are boston based groups that will allow you to gay mentor older teens ages 17-19 who have walked on their families who have given them ultimatums that if they gay actualize room and board, love, and college tuitions will be withheld. these are awesome groups for mentoring. Your local PFLAG meetings are also full of the boisterous love and sounds of the teenage youth. Do your part.
As Tyler said, the Lord will reward you for your patient endurance! Adopt a kid today!
a mom

Chas-trate said...

Tyler

I remember meeting you and you're right, I didn't shake your hand, not because of a lack of courage but because your juvenile argumentation annoyed me.

You can call yourself full of love and whatever kumbayaya mumbo jumbo you see your self portraying but in the meantime everything you said to me was random non-supported/illogical BS that while disguised as love means nothing to me but oppression when you show not attempt to examine the truth of it.

One example in particular that I remember you arguing was about the female basketball player that came out of the closet and how she stated that "she chose" to be that way. Do people choose to be gay...why not? I don't doubt that it is a mix of environment and biology that contribute to being gay, but you immediately go from her choosing to be gay to then saying that all gays choose to be gay. I mean of course, if it's true for one it must be true for all, right? Do yourself a favor and pick up a book on logic dude.

Then of course there is the very thing that groups like Love Won Out sidestep...is it morally wrong to be gay? I'm sorry but saying "the bible says it is" is not a good argument logically or evidentially. Not to mention that as someone that is friends with many Christians is insulting to your religion.

If all you have to hold yourself up in your beliefs is that 'it's in the bible'...well be afraid then because the bible can be interpreted in so many different ways depending on the times and without good analysis on your part to give yourself a solid foundation, that foundation could be pulled out from under you thanks to your own ignorant consent.

By the way Tyler, my name is Carlo, not Carlos. If you're going to be "loving and tolerant" of someone then the first thing you should do is get their name right.

Jesse said...

Tyler,

I didn't shake your hand for a few reasons.

1.) I was there protesting you and your hateful cohorts.

2.) I don't want to catch whatever it is you have.

3.) I shake hands with people I can/do respect. I don't respect you; your message is deadly.

Lets be clear here. The issue is the content of the conference. Queer youth are 4 times more likely to attempt suicide. They are 10 times more likely to skip school because of harrassment. What is scaring me more and more is not that those numbers are so high it is that with groups like Focus On the Family, Mass Family Institute, Article 8 Alliance, Parents Rights Coalition, and others. That those numbers are so low!!!

Call your verbage what you like. We will continue to call it hate and we will not be silenced.

TYLER! SHUT IT DOWN!

A Mom said...

Jesse,

one child is too high a number. But bless you (see a lesbian Mom can offer blessings also...:) for talking about the content of the conference. thanks for bringing the tylers and kenny's of the world back to the issue: teen depression and suicide. If you all would like, I can ask my sister to detail the syllabus of treatment her son and daughter are receiving from the therapists at focus on the family, their daily bible group, and their christian high school. Do you have children Tyler? Have you ever met an intersex child Kenny? Have either of you ever been in contact with transgendered children and felt their pain? Do you realize what a sophisticated loving sense of parenting you have to have to accept the child in front of you as they appeared at birth? Have you ever been in an aversion therapy appointment? It was my understanding that the christian right, as a rule, does not believe in pre-natal amniocentisis. If there was a blood test or ultrasound that could detect inter sex, transgendered, or gay, would you advocate the mother abort? I doubt so. Then why do you advocate that the mother not accept what is in front of her, reach out and love? Why is it so hard for you to actually love. You co-opt the words for your group, but you seem to totally be unable to actually follow through to fruition. I'll tell you what. Perhaps you have not been around enough kids. Do you need the address of the local gay peer and youth groups? Would that help? There is so much you can actually do to prevent hardship to gay children. It's a shame that you are missing that mission. What wuold Jesus have done? Have you ever had a depressed or suicidal nephew or niece ask you why their parents refuse to accept them as gay and torment them with peer isolation, removal of all contact to the outside world? Have you ever met a parent who withholds love if their gay son continues to date boys and reaches out to his peer community? Have you ever meet a teen forced to leave their home because they are gay? Have you ever met a parent who shuts off tuition assistance because their child self actualizes? Have you ever been to a gay teen's wake? Funeral? Perhaps your life experience has been insufficient for you to come to the conclusions that you have. You need some child consciousness raising. Tell me how I can help.
A mom

Anonymous said...

I was 16 when I entered the gay lifesyle, I left at age 40.

I came to the USA from Russia,
and was questioning my sexual identity.

In Russia I had been sexualy abused when I was 9.

I started going to gay youth camps,
when I got to the US!

Ironicaly the group was in an Epicoplain Church, where we would have sex in the church pews, when no one was there!

I was told about the 10 percent myth, and how my parents and Catholic Faith was bigoted.

My University also helped me intitate my gay identity!

I became a "Gay Rights" activist.

It made me fell strong and powerful.

When I said gay righst people would cringe!

Slowly I began calling myslef gay.

Everything was about the gay life.

I even wanted to be a lawyer for gay rights.

I went to University, and came out to and my family and freinds were very open about me being gay

I stand before you as a straight male today, I went to no ex gay groups.

I just changed my enviroment, as the saying goes you are what you hang with!

Slowly I began to have sexual attractions to women, and I am married today.

I have 4 kids, we are not very religious.

I have many gay freinds, since we live in Boston.

I support gay rights, but I also support ex gay identified youth to pursue there idetity.

When I was gay I asked the same of the straight community.


The gay community can not stand ex gay ministries because they continue to hold a mirror up to gay activist face's.

And that simple truth that change is possible is scary to them.

"Thats why you hear "shut it down"
But just like the gay rightsmovement rose becauce people tried to sream it down, so to will the ex gay movement.

The ex gay movement is growinga ll over the world, and they are becoming more out spoken and more diverse.

I am a democrat, I did not vote for Bush, but I support ex gays!

Hopefully the gay community will be more tolerant of this new powerful force!

Piotr Vasilevich

http://www.pfox.org/

Anonymous said...

Is Sexual Orientation Fixed at Birth?

The best overall summary of most respected researchers is that homosexuality (like most other psychological conditions) is due to a combination of social, biological, and psychological factors.

Following are quotes from researchers in the field:

(1) From Dr. Dean Hamer, the "gay gene" researcher, and himself a gay man:

"Genes are hardware...the data of life's experiences are processed through the sexual software into the circuits of identity. I suspect the sexual software is a mixture of both genes and environment, in much the same way the software of a computer is a mixture of what's installed at the factory and what's added by the user."
--P. Copeland and D. Hamer (1994) The Science of Desire. New York: Simon and Schuster.

(2) From psychiatrist Jeffrey Satinover, M.D.:

"Like all complex behavioral and mental states, homosexuality is...neither exclusively biological nor exclusively psychological, but results from an as-yet-difficult-to-quantitate mixture of genetic factors, intrauterine influences...postnatal environment (such as parent, sibling and cultural behavior), and a complex series of repeatedly reinforced choices occurring at critical phases of development."
--J. Satinover, M.D., Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth (1996). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books.

(3) When "gay gene" researcher Dr. Dean Hamer was asked if homosexuality was rooted solely in biology, he replied:

"Absolutely not. From twin studies, we already know that half or more of the variability in sexual orientation is not inherited. Our studies try to pinpoint the genetic factors...not negate the psychosocial factors."
--"New Evidence of a 'Gay Gene'," by Anastasia Toufexis, Time, November 13, 1995, vol. 146, Issue 20, p. 95.

(4) William Byne, a psychiatrist with a doctorate in biology, and Bruce Parsons (1993) carefully analyzed all the major biological studies of homosexuality. They found none that definitively supported a biological theory of causation. --W. Byne and B. Parsons, "Human Sexual Orientation: The Biologic Theories Reappraised." Archives of General Psychiatry 50, no.3.)


(5) Psychiatrists Friedman and Downey state that "a biopsychosocial model" best fits our knowledge of causation, with various combinations of temperament and environmental events leading to homosexuality. They say:

"Despite recent neurobiological findings suggesting homosexuality is genetically-biologically determined, credible evidence is lacking for a biological model of homosexuality."
--R. Friedman, M.D. and J. Downey, M.D., Journal of Neuropsychiatry, vol. 5, No. 2, Spring l993.

(6) From sociologist Steven Goldberg, Ph.D.:

"Virtually all of the evidence argues against there being a determinative physiological causal factor and I know of no researcher who believes that such a determinative factor exists...such factors play a predisposing, not a determinative role...I know of no one in the field who argues that homosexuality can be explained without reference to environmental factors."
Goldberg adds:
"Gay criticism has not addressed the classic family configuration"; it has merely "asserted away the considerable evidence" for the existence of family factors. Studies which attempt to disprove the existence of the classic family pattern in homosexuality are "convincing only to those with a need to believe."
--S. Goldberg (1994) When Wish Replaces Thought: Why So Much of What You Believe is False. Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books.

(7) An article on genes and behavior in Science magazine says:

"...the interaction of genes and environment is much more complicated than the simple "violence genes" and intelligence genes" touted in the popular press. Indeed, renewed appreciation of environmental factors is one of the chief effects of the increased belief in genetics' effects on behavior. The same data that show the effects of genes also point to the enormous influence of non-genetic factors."
--C. Mann, "Genes and behavior," Science 264:1687 (1994), pp. 1686-1689.

(8) Among Jeffrey Satinover's conclusions in "The Gay Gene":

"(1) There is a genetic component to homosexuality, but 'component' is just a loose way of indicating genetic associations and linkages. 'Linkage' and 'association' do not mean 'causation.'
(2) There is no evidence that shows that homosexuality is genetic--and none of the research itself claims there is. Only the press and certain researchers do, when speaking in sound bites to the public."

--Jeffrey Satinover, M.D., The Journal of Human Sexuality, 1996, p.8.

(9) Says brain researcher Dr. Simon LeVay:

"At this point, the most widely held opinion [on causation of homosexuality] is that multiple factors play a role.
"In 1988, PFLAG member Tinkle Hake surveyed a number of well-known figures in the field about their views on homosexuality. She asked: 'Many observers believe that a person's sexual orientation is determined by one of more of the following factors: genetic, hormonal, psychological, or social. Based on today's state-of-the-art-science, what is your opinion?'

"The answers included the following: 'all of the above in concert' (Alan Bell), 'all of these variables' (Richard Green), 'multiple factors' (Gilbert Herdt), 'a combination of all the factors named' (Evelyn Hooker), 'all of these factors' (Judd Marmor), 'a combination of causes' (Richard Pillard), 'possibly genetic and hormonal, but juvenile sexual rehearsal play is particularly important' (John Money), and 'genetic and hormonal factors, and perhaps also some early childhood experiences' (James Weinrich)." (Page 273)

--Simon LeVay (1996), in Queer Science, published by MIT Press.

(10) The American Psychological Association says:

"Various theories have proposed differing sources for sexual orientation...However, many scientists share the view that sexual orientation is shaped for most people at an early age through complex interactions of biological, psychological and social factors."
--From the A.P.A.'s booklet, "Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality"

(11) The national organization P-FLAG ("Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays") offers a booklet prepared with the assistance of Dr. Clinton Anderson of the American Psychological Association. Entitled, "Why Ask Why? Addressing the Research on Homosexuality and Biology," the pamphlet says:

"To date, no researcher has claimed that genes can determine sexual orientation. At best, researchers believe that there may be a genetic component. No human behavior, let alone sexual behavior, has been connected to genetic markers to date...sexuality, like every other behavior, is undoubtedly influenced by both biological and societal factors."

A Mom said...

my niece has been cross dressing since she could walk and rip the female clothes off,shear her head when no one was looking and do incredible transitioning things for such a wee tike. who would have thought, in our family of all places... amazing. she was preached to, therapized, sanitzed, punished, role modeled, you know, by someone like you, and still she persists. she is 14 now. Any suggestions? she is held down to be dressed. does that sound like something you could do? my 16 year old nephew has been flaming since 3.he is on 24/7 anti-gay association surviellance, does that sound like something you could do? Their 5 other brother's and sisters are not gender variant or gay or lesbian. this is the type of information that focus on child abuse does not want because it doesn't fit their model guys and gals of the mental mother and the effeminate dad. maybe you should quote your own esteemed therapists and explain more about this aversion thing? Do you think it would be helpful to have the children explain themselves? so these two children come to you, intersex/transitioning, and gay, what do you do? read the above statistics that prove what? what you have in front of you, is what you have in front of you. If they were normative like their 5 brothers and sisters, then this family would be singing the alleluia chorus, buddy. they are not. accept. let go of the illusion that you can predetermine your child's desiny. Wonderful that an ex-gay is married and has 4 kids. Where is the illustrative point there? So? And PFLAG is an awesome jumping point for those teens not under parental mind control. It is the embrace in meetings by all the straight folk: the grandmothers, and the grandfathers, the godmothers, and the godfathers, the embrace, it's OK. Do your part today. Join a gay/teen youth group and alliance. Oh! and enjoy the globe article while you are at it about the superior parenting skills of the Mom, with the twin baby boys, one of which was suicidal in pre-school, this boy was assisted in transitioning in kindergarten. Read the account of a mother, who could step aside from herself, listen to her child, and accept the babe placed in her arms, and love and embrace. Stop the pain. stop abusing children. "as long as her son is happy and free from harm. Free from harm. Yes.
In peace and love
A mom

By Neil Swidey | August 14, 2005

With crystal-blue eyes, wavy hair, and freshly scrubbed faces, the boys look as though they stepped out of a Pottery Barn Kids catalog. They are 7-year-old twins. I'll call them Thomas and Patrick; their parents agreed to let me meet the boys as long as I didn't use their real names.

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five seconds with them, and there can be no doubt that they are identical twins - so identical even they can't tell each other apart in photographs. Spend five minutes with them, and their profound differences begin to emerge.

Patrick is social, thoughtful, attentive. He repeatedly addresses me by name. Thomas is physical, spontaneous, a bit distracted. Just minutes after meeting me outside a coffee shop, he punches me in the upper arm, yells, "Gray punch buggy!" and then points to a Volkswagen Beetle cruising past us. It's a hard punch. They horse around like typical brothers, but Patrick's punches are less forceful and his voice is higher. Thomas charges at his brother, arms flexed in front of him like a mini-bodybuilder. The differences are subtle - they're 7-year-old boys, after all - but they are there.

When the twins were 2, Patrick found his mother's shoes. He liked wearing them. Thomas tried on his father's once but didn't see the point.

When they were 3, Thomas blurted out that toy guns were his favorite things. Patrick piped up that his were the Barbie dolls he discovered at day care.

When the twins were 5, Thomas announced he was going to be a monster for Halloween. Patrick said he was going to be a princess. Thomas said he couldn't do that, because other kids would laugh at him. Patrick seemed puzzled. "Then I'll be Batman," he said.

Their mother - intelligent, warm, and open-minded - found herself conflicted. She wanted Patrick - whose playmates have always been girls, never boys - to be himself, but she worried his feminine behavior would expose him to ridicule and pain. She decided to allow him free expression at home while setting some limits in public.

That worked until last year, when a school official called to say Patrick was making his classmates uncomfortable. He kept insisting that he was a girl.

Patrick exhibits behavior called childhood gender nonconformity, or CGN. This doesn't describe a boy who has a doll somewhere in his toy collection or tried on his sister's Snow White outfit once, but rather one who consistently exhibits a host of strongly feminine traits and interests while avoiding boy-typical behavior like rough-and-tumble play. There's been considerable research into this phenomenon, particularly in males, including a study that followed boys from an early age into early adulthood. The data suggest there is a very good chance Patrick will grow up to be homosexual. Not all homosexual men show this extremely feminine behavior as young boys. But the research indicates that, of the boys who do exhibit CGN, about 75 percent of them - perhaps more - turn out to be gay or bisexual.

What makes the case of Patrick and Thomas so fascinating is that it calls into question both of the dominant theories in the long-running debate over what makes people gay: nature or nurture, genes or learned behavior. As identical twins, Patrick and Thomas began as genetic clones. From the moment they came out of their mother's womb, their environment was about as close to identical as possible - being fed, changed, and plopped into their car seats the same way, having similar relationships with the same nurturing father and mother. Yet before either boy could talk, one showed highly feminine traits while the other appeared to be "all boy," as the moms at the playgrounds say with apologetic shrugs.

"That my sons were different the second they were born, there is no question about it," says the twins' mother.

So what happened between their identical genetic starting point and their births? They spent nine months in utero. In the hunt for what causes people to be gay or straight, that's now the most interesting and potentially enlightening frontier.

WHAT DOES IT MATTER WHERE HOMOSEXUALITY COMES FROM? Proving people are born gay would give them wider social acceptance and better protection against discrimination, many gay rights advocates argue. In the last decade, as this "biological" argument has gained momentum, polls find Americans - especially young adults - increasingly tolerant of gays and lesbians. And that's exactly what has groups opposed to homosexuality so concerned. The Family Research Council, a conservative Christian think tank in Washington, D.C., argues in its book Getting It Straight that finding people are born gay "would advance the idea that sexual orientation is an innate characteristic, like race; that homosexuals, like African-Americans, should be legally protected against 'discrimination;' and that disapproval of homosexuality should be as socially stigmatized as racism. However, it is not true."

Some advocates of gay marriage argue that proving sexual orientation is inborn would make it easier to frame the debate as simply a matter of civil rights. That could be true, but then again, freedom of religion enjoyed federal protection long before inborn traits like race and sex.

For much of the 20th century, the dominant thinking connected homosexuality to upbringing. Freud, for instance, speculated that overprotective mothers and distant fathers helped make boys gay. It took the American Psychiatric Association until 1973 to remove "homosexuality" from its manual of mental disorders.

Then, in 1991, a neuroscientist in San Diego named Simon LeVay told the world he had found a key difference between the brains of homosexual and heterosexual men he studied. LeVay showed that a tiny clump of neurons of the anterior hypothalamus - which is believed to control sexual behavior - was, on average, more than twice the size in heterosexual men as in homosexual men. LeVay's findings did not speak directly to the nature-vs.-nurture debate - the clumps could, theoretically, have changed size because of homosexual behavior. But that seemed unlikely, and the study ended up jump-starting the effort to prove a biological basis for homosexuality.

Later that same year, Boston University psychiatrist Richard Pillard and Northwestern University psychologist J. Michael Bailey announced the results of their study of male twins. They found that, in identical twins, if one twin was gay, the other had about a 50 percent chance of also being gay. For fraternal twins, the rate was about 20 percent. Because identical twins share their entire genetic makeup while fraternal twins share about half, genes were believed to explain the difference. Most reputable studies find the rate of homosexuality in the general population to be 2 to 4 percent, rather than the popular "1 in 10" estimate.

In 1993 came the biggest news: Dean Hamer's discovery of the "gay gene." In fact, Hamer, a Harvard-trained researcher at the National Cancer Institute, hadn't quite put it that boldly or imprecisely. He found that gay brothers shared a specific region of the X chromosome, called Xq28, at a higher rate than gay men shared with their straight brothers. Hamer and others suggested this finding would eventually transform our understanding of sexual orientation.

That hasn't happened yet. But the clear focus of sexual-orientation research has shifted to biological causes, and there hasn't been much science produced to support the old theories tying homosexuality to upbringing. Freud may have been seeing the effect rather than the cause, since a father faced with a very feminine son might well become more distant or hostile, leading the boy's mother to become more protective. In recent years, researchers who suspect that homosexuality is inborn - whether because of genetics or events happening in the womb - have looked everywhere for clues: Prenatal hormones. Birth order. Finger length. Fingerprints. Stress. Sweat. Eye blinks. Spatial relations. Hearing. Handedness. Even "gay" sheep.

LeVay, who is gay, says that when he published his study 14 years ago, some gays and lesbians criticized him for doing research that might lead to homosexuality once again being lumped in with diseases and disorders. "If anything, the reverse has happened," says LeVay, who is now 61 and no longer active in the lab. He says the hunt for a biological basis for homosexuality, which involves many researchers who are themselves gay or lesbian, "has contributed to the status of gay people in society."

These studies have been small and underfunded, and the results have often been modest. Still, because there's been so much of this disparate research, "all sort of pointing in the same direction, makes it pretty clear there are biological processes significantly influencing sexual orientation," says LeVay. "But it's also kind of frustrating that it's still a bunch of hints, that nothing is really as crystal clear as you would like."

Just in the last few months, though, the hints have grown stronger.

In May, Swedish researchers reported finding important differences in how the brains of straight men and gay men responded to two compounds suspected of being pheromones - those scent-related chemicals that are key to sexual arousal in animals. The first compound came from women's urine, the second from male sweat. Brain scans showed that when straight men smelled the female urine compound, their hypothalamus lit up. That didn't happen with gay men. Instead, their hypothalamus lit up when they smelled the male-sweat compound, which was the same way straight women had responded. This research once again connecting the hypothalamus to sexual orientation comes on the heels of work with sheep. About 8 percent of domestic rams are exclusively interested in sex with other rams. Researchers found that a clump of neurons similar to the one LeVay identified in human brains was also smaller in gay rams than straight ones. (Again, it's conceivable that these differences could be showing effect rather than cause.)

In June, scientists in Vienna announced that they had isolated a master genetic switch for sexual orientation in the fruit fly. Once they flicked the switch, the genetically altered female flies rebuffed overtures from males and instead attempted to mate with other females, adopting the elaborate courting dance and mating songs that males use.

And now, a large-scale, five-year genetic study of gay brothers is underway in North America. The study received $2.5 million from the National Institutes of Health, which is unusual. Government funders tend to steer clear of sexual orientation research, aware that even small grants are apt to be met with outrage from conservative congressmen looking to make the most of their C-Span face time. Relying on a robust sample of 1,000 gay-brother pairs and the latest advancements in genetic screening, this study promises to bring some clarity to the murky area of what role genes may play in homosexuality.

This accumulating biological evidence, combined with the prospect of more on the horizon, is having an effect. Last month, the Rev. Rob Schenck, a prominent Washington, D.C., evangelical leader, told a large gathering of young evangelicals that he believes homosexuality is not a choice but rather a predisposition, something "deeply rooted" in people. Schenck told me that his conversion came about after he'd spoken extensively with genetic researchers and psychologists. He argues that evangelicals should continue to oppose homosexual behavior, but that "many evangelicals are living in a sort of state of denial about the advance of this conversation." His message: "If it's inevitable that this scientific evidence is coming, we have to be prepared with a loving response. If we don't have one, we won't have any credibility."

AS THE 21-YEAR-OLD COLLEGE JUNIOR IN A HOSPITAL JOHNNY slides into the MRI, she is handed controls with buttons for "strongly like" and "strongly dislike." Hundreds of pornographic images - in male-male and female-female pairings - flash before her eyes. Eroticism eventually gives way to monotony, and it's hard to avoid looking for details to distinguish one image from the rest of the panting pack. So it goes from "Look at the size of those breasts!" to "That can't be comfortable, given the length of her fingernails!" to "Why is that guy wearing nothing but work boots on the beach?"

Regardless of which buttons the student presses, the MRI scans show her arousal level to each image, at its starting point in the brain.

Researchers at Northwestern University, outside Chicago, are doing this work as a follow-up to their studies of arousal using genital measurement tools. They found that while straight men were aroused by film clips of two women having sex, and gay men were aroused by clips of two men having sex, most of the men who identified themselves as bisexual showed gay arousal patterns. More surprising was just how different the story with women turned out to be. Most women, whether they identified as straight, lesbian, or bisexual, were significantly aroused by straight, gay, and lesbian sex. "I'm not suggesting that most women are bisexual," says Michael Bailey, the psychology professor whose lab conducted the studies. "I'm suggesting that whatever a woman's sexual arousal pattern is, it has little to do with her sexual orientation." That's fundamentally different from men. "In men, arousal is orientation. It's as simple as that. That's how gay men learn they are gay."

These studies mark a return to basics for the 47-year-old Bailey. He says researchers need a far deeper understanding of what sexual orientation is before they can determine where it comes from.

Female sexual orientation is particularly foggy, he says, because there's been so little research done. As for male sexual orientation, he argues that there's now enough evidence to suggest it is "entirely in-born," though not nearly enough to establish how that happens.

Bailey's 1991 twin study is still cited by other researchers as one of the pillars in the genetic argument for homosexuality. But his follow-up study using a comprehensive registry of twins in Australia found a much lower rate of similarity in sexual orientation between identical twins, about 20 percent, down from 50 percent. Bailey still believes that genes make important contributions to sexual orientation. But, he says, "that's not where I'd bet the real breakthroughs will come."

His hunch is that further study of childhood gender nonconformity will pay big. Because it's unclear what percentage of homosexuals and lesbians showed CGN as children, Bailey and his colleagues are now running a study that uses adult participants' home movies from childhood to look for signs of gender-bending behavior.

Cornell psychologist Daryl Bem has proposed an intriguing theory for how CGN might lead to homosexuality. According to this pathway, which he calls "the exotic becomes erotic," children are born with traits for temperament, such as aggression and activity level, that predispose them to male-typical or female-typical activities. They seek out playmates with the same interests. So a boy whose traits lead him to hopscotch and away from rough play will feel different from, and ostracized by, other boys. This leads to physiological arousal of fear and anger in their presence, arousal that eventually is transformed from exotic to erotic.

Critics of homosexuality have used Bem's theory, which stresses environment over biology, to argue that sexual orientation is not inborn and not fixed. But Bem says this pathway is triggered by biological traits, and he doesn't really see how the outcome of homosexuality can be changed.

Bailey says whether or not Bem's theory holds up, the environment most worth focusing in on is the one a child experiences when he's in his mother's womb.

LET'S GET BACK TO THOMAS AND PATRICK. BECAUSE IT'S UNCLEAR why twin brothers with identical genetic starting points and similar post-birth environments would take such divergent paths, it's helpful to return to the beginning.

Males and females have a fundamental genetic difference - females have two X chromosomes, and males have an X and a Y. Still, right after conception, it's hard to tell male and female zygotes apart, except for that tucked-away chromosomal difference. Normally, the changes take shape at a key point of fetal development, when the male brain is masculinized by sex hormones. The female brain is the default. The brain will stay on the female path as long as it is protected from exposure to hormones. The hormonal theory of homosexuality holds that, just as exposure to circulating sex hormones determines whether a fetus will be male or female, such exposure must also influence sexual orientation.

The cases of children born with disorders of "sexual differentiation" offer insight. William Reiner, a psychiatrist and urologist with the University of Oklahoma, has evaluated more than a hundred of these cases. For decades, the standard medical response to boys born with severely inadequate penises (or none at all) was to castrate the boy and have his parents raise him as a girl. But Reiner has found that nurture - even when it involves surgery soon after birth - cannot trump nature. Of the boys with inadequate penises who were raised as girls, he says, "I haven't found one who is sexually attracted to males." The majority of them have transitioned back to being males and report being attracted to females.

During fetal development, sexual identity is set before the sexual organs are formed, Reiner says. Perhaps it's the same for sexual orientation. In his research, of all the babies with X and Y chromosomes who were raised as girls, the only ones he has found who report having female identities and being attracted to males are those who did not have "receptors" to let the male sex hormones do their masculinizing in the womb.

What does this all mean? "Exposure to male hormones in utero dramatically raises the chances of being sexually attracted to females," Reiner says. "We can infer that the absence of male hormone exposure may have something to do with attraction to males."

Michael Bailey says Reiner's findings represent a major breakthrough, showing that "whatever causes sexual orientation is strongly influenced by prenatal biology." Bailey and Reiner say the answer is probably not as simple as just exposure to sex hormones. After all, the exposure levels in some of the people Reiner studies are abnormal enough to produce huge differences in sexual organs. Yet, sexual organs in straight and gay people are, on average, the same. More likely, hormones are interacting with other factors.

Canadian researchers have consistently documented a "big-brother effect," finding that the chances of a boy being gay increase with each additional older brother he has. (Birth order does not appear to play a role with lesbians.) So, a male with three older brothers is three times more likely to be gay than one with no older brothers, though there's still a better than 90 percent chance he will be straight. They argue that this results from a complex interaction involving hormones, antigens, and the mother's immune system.

By now, there is substantial evidence showing correlation - though not causation - between sexual orientation and traits that are set when a baby is in the womb. Take finger length. In general, men have shorter index fingers in relation to their ring fingers; in women, the lengths are generally about the same. Researchers have found that lesbians generally have ratios closer to males. Other studies have shown masculinized results for lesbians in inner-ear functions and eye-blink reactions to sudden loud noises, and feminized patterns for gay men on certain cognitive tasks like spatial perception and remembering the placement of objects.

New York University researcher Lynn S. Hall, who has studied traits determined in the womb, speculates that Patrick was somehow prenatally stressed, probably during the first trimester, when the brain is really developing, particularly the structures like the hypothalamus that influence sexual behavior. This stress might have been based on his position in the womb or the blood flow to him or any of a number of other factors not in his mother's control. Yet more evidence that identical twins have womb experiences far from identical can be found in their often differing birth weights. Patrick was born a pound lighter than Thomas.

Taken together, the research suggests that early on in the womb, as the fetus's brain develops in either the male or female direction, something fundamental to sexual orientation is happening. Nobody's sure what's causing it. But here's where genes may be involved, perhaps by regulating hormone exposure or by dictating the size of that key clump of neurons in the hypothalamus. Before researchers can sort that out, they'll need to return to the question of whether, in fact, there is a "gay gene."

THE CROWD ON BOSTON COMMON IS THICK ON THIS SCORCHER of a Saturday afternoon in June, as the throngs make their way around the 35th annual Boston Pride festival, past booths peddling everything from "Gayopoly" board games to Braveheartian garments called Utilikilts. Sitting quietly in his booth is Alan Sanders, a soft-spoken 41-year-old with a sandy beard and thinning hair. He's placed a mound of rainbow-colored Starbursts on the table in front of him and hung a banner that reads: "WANTED: Gay Men with Gay Brothers for Molecular Genetic Study of Sexual Orientation."

Sanders is a psychiatrist with the Evanston Northwestern Healthcare Research Institute who is leading the NIH-funded search for the genetic basis of male homosexuality (www.gaybros.com). He is spending the summer crisscrossing the country, going to gay pride festivals, hoping to recruit 1,000 pairs of gay brothers to participate. (His wife, who just delivered their third son, wasn't crazy about the timing.) When people in Boston ask him how much genes may contribute to homosexuality, he says the best estimate is about 40 percent.

Homosexuality runs in families - studies show that 8 to 12 percent of brothers of gay men are also gay, compared with the 2 to 4 percent of the general population.

Sanders spends much of the afternoon handing out Starbursts to people who clearly don't qualify for a gay brothers study - preteen girls, adult lesbians wearing T-shirts that read "I Like Girls Who Like Girls," and elderly women in straw hats who speak only Chinese. But many of the gay men who stop by are interested in more than free candy. Among the people signing up is James Daly, a 31-year-old from Salem. "I think it's important for the public - especially the religious right - to know it's not a choice for some people," Daly says. "I feel I was born this way."

(In fairness, there aren't many leaders of groups representing social and religious conservatives who still argue that homosexual orientation - as opposed to behavior - is a matter of choice. Even as he insists that no one is born gay, Peter Sprigg, the point person on homosexuality for the Family Research Council, says, "I don't think that people choose their sexual attraction.")

In the decade since Dean Hamer made headlines, the gay gene theory has taken some hits. A Canadian team was unable to replicate his findings. Earlier this year, a team from Hamer's own lab reported only mixed results after having done the first scan of the entire human genome in the search for genes influencing sexual orientation.

But all of the gene studies so far have been based on small samples and lacked the funding to do things right. Sanders's study should be big enough to provide some real answers on linkage as well as shed light on gender nonconformity and the big-brother effect.

There is, however, a towering question that Sanders's study will probably not be able to answer. That has to do with evolution. If a prime motivation of all species is to pass genes on to future generations, and gay men are estimated to produce 80 percent fewer offspring than straight men, why would a gay gene not have been wiped out by the forces of natural selection? This evolutionary disadvantage is what led former Amherst College biologist Paul Ewald to argue that homosexuality might be caused by a virus - a pathogen most likely working in utero. That argument caused a stir when he and a colleague proposed it six years ago, but with no research done to test it, it remains just another theory. Other scientists have offered fascinating but unpersuasive explanations, most of them focusing on some kind of compensatory benefit, in the same way that the gene responsible for sickle cell anemia also protects against malaria. A study last year by researchers in Italy showed that female relatives of gay men tended to be more fertile, though, as critics point out, not nearly fertile enough to make up for the gay man's lack of offspring.

But there will be plenty of time for sorting out the evolutionary paradox once - and if - researchers are able to identify actual genes involved in sexual orientation. Getting to that point will likely require integrating multiple lines of promising research. That is exactly what's happening in Eric Vilain's lab at the University of California, Los Angeles. Vilain, an associate professor of human genetics, and his colleague, Sven Bocklandt, are using gay sheep, transgenic mice, identical twin humans, and novel approaches to human genetics to try to unlock the mystery of sexual orientation.

Instead of looking for a gay gene, they stress that they are looking for several genes that cause either attraction to men or attraction to women. Those same genes would work one way in heterosexual women and another way in homosexual men. The UCLA lab is examining how these genes might be turned "up" or "down." It's not a question of what genes you have, but rather which ones you use, says Bocklandt. "I have the genes in my body to make a vagina and carry a baby, but I don't use them, because I am a man." In studying the genes of gay sheep, for example, he's found some that are turned "way up" compared with the straight rams.

The lab is also testing an intriguing theory involving imprinted genes. Normally, we have two copies of every gene, one from each parent, and both copies work. They're identical, so it doesn't matter which copy comes from which parent. But with imprinted genes, that does matter. Although both copies are physically there, one copy - either from the mom or the dad - is blocked from working. Think of an airplane with an engine on each wing, except one of the engines is shut down. A recent Duke University study suggests humans have hundreds of imprinted genes, including one on the X chromosome that previous research has tied to sexual orientation.

With imprinted genes, there is no backup engine. So if there's something atypical in the copy from mom, the copy from dad cannot be turned on. The UCLA lab is now collecting DNA from identical twins in which one twin is straight and the other is gay. Because the twins begin as genetic clones, if a gene is imprinted in one twin, it will be in the other twin as well. Normally, as the fetuses are developing, each time a cell divides, the DNA separates and makes a copy of itself, replicating all kinds of genetic information. It's a complicated but incredibly accurate process. But the coding to keep the backup engine shut down on an imprinted gene is less accurate.

So how might imprinted genes help explain why one identical twin would be straight and the other gay? Say there's an imprinted gene for attraction to females, and there's something atypical in the copy the twin brothers get from mom. As all that replicating is going on, the imprinting (to keep the copy from dad shut down) proceeds as expected in one twin, and he ends up gay. But somehow with his brother, the coding for the imprinting is lost, and rather than remain shut down, the fuel flows to fire up the backup engine from dad. And that twin turns out to be straight.

IN THE COURSE OF REPORTING THIS STORY, I EXPERIENCED A good deal of whiplash. Just when I would become swayed by the evidence supporting one discreet theory, I would stumble onto new evidence casting some doubt on it. Ultimately, I accepted this as unavoidable terrain in the hunt for the basis of sexual orientation. This is, after all, a research field built on underfunded, idiosyncratic studies that are met with full-barreled responses from opposing and well-funded advocacy groups determined to make the results from the lab hew to the scripts they've honed for the talk-show circuit.

You can't really blame the advocacy groups. The stakes are high. In the end, homosexuality remains such a divisive issue that only thoroughly tested research will get society to accept what science has to say about its origin. Critics of funding for sexual orientation research say that it isn't curing cancer, and they're right. But we devote a lot more dollars to studying other issues that aren't curing cancer and have less resonance in society.

Still, no matter how imperfect these studies are, when you put them all together and examine them closely, the message is clear: While post-birth development may well play a supporting role, the roots of homosexuality, at least in men, appear to be in place by the time a child is born. After spending years sifting through all the available data, British researchers Glenn Wilson and Qazi Rahman come to an even bolder conclusion in their forthcoming book Born Gay: The Psychobiology of Sex Orientation, in which they write: "Sexual orientation is something we are born with and not `acquired' from our social environment."

Meanwhile, the mother of twins Patrick and Thomas has done her own sifting and come to her own conclusions. She says her son's feminine behavior suggests he will grow up to be gay, and she has no problem with that. She just worries about what happens to him between now and then.

After that fateful call from Patrick's school, she says, "I knew I had to talk to my son, and I had no clue what to say." Ultimately, she told him that although he could play however he wanted at home, he couldn't tell his classmates he was a girl, because they'd think he was lying. And she told him that some older boys might be mean to him and even hit him if he continued to claim he was a girl.

Then she asked him, "Do you think that you can convince yourself that you are a boy?"

"Yes, Mom," he said. "It's going to be like when I was trying to learn to read, and then one day I opened the book and I could read."

His mother's heart sank. She could tell that he wanted more than anything to please her. "Basically, he was saying there must be a miracle - that one day I wake up and I'm a boy. That's the only way he could imagine it could happen."

In the year since that conversation, Patrick's behavior has become somewhat less feminine. His mother hopes it's just because his interests are evolving and not because he's suppressing them.

"I can now imagine him being completely straight, which I couldn't a year ago," she says. "I can imagine him being gay, which seems to be statistically most likely."

She says she's fine with either outcome, just as long as he's happy and free from harm. She takes heart in how much more accepting today's society is. "By the time my boys are 20, the world will have changed even more."

Anonymous said...

Piotr is a bisexual.

kenny said...

Since I do not belong to the christian right movement in the United States or anywhere, I wish that I was not lumped together with them. Sorry mom, can't help you with that one.
I have been working with children and youth for nearly 40 years. Both in daycare settings, inner city drop in centers and in the school system. I have worked with boys who showed more effeminate traits and I have worked with girls who would be considered more masculine. Does this make them either gay or lesbian?

I believe it doesn't. Who said that if you are a boy and playing with barbie dolls or putting on your mom's shoes make you gay? That is crap.
If a girl wants short hair then automatically she is stereotyped as a lesbian.

Growing up I had a father who was absent from my life. My sister made it clear that I was supposed to be the sister not the brother. I started to identify with her and other strong female role models in my life. My dad was not the strong man that he should have been. I was pretty much scared of all men...and boys my own age. I was suicidal, depressed, angry. Because more importantly, I was confused beyond measure. Not once did someone while I was growing up commend me on my man hood. I was never called out as a man. So when you tell me that I don't understand what those two kids are going through, I do! Was it fair that I got called a sissy, faggot, fairy since I was in grade 5? Was it fair that I did not have a father who was a positive male influence in my life? I thought maybe I was a girl trapped in a boys body and started crossdressing. Because I identified with females rather than males.
This did not make me GAY! When a boy is growing up and starts "flaming" what does that mean? Just because he has effeminate qualities it does not mean he is gay...that is stereotyping. Just because a male is a hockey player does not mean he is straight...ah...another stereotype.
So let's stop confusing these children at an early age...stop stereotyping them when they are different than the "norm. What is important is calling them into their gender. It is making them feel accepted as a male or female. It is raising them with the knowledge that how they where created is a wonderful thing. I was a boy at birth. I was predisposed to be more sensitive, and so when things in my life got ugly, and I did not have a positive person to cling to for support, I became depressed, confused and troubled.
I am a twin and my twin brother is not gay, nor has he ever been. If he shares my dna then he should have gone through the same things as me...ah, yes, please replicate the study.
To the mom....you talk about child abuse. It is also child abuse to stereotype children for being flaming or cutting their hair...this does not mean they are gay or lesbian. Get over it. I was sexually abused when I was 8 and it continued till I was 17. If we had more morals in the world, maybe this would not have happened to me. But we don't we grow up with SEX being the be all and end all. That SEX defines us as who we are. Well it doesn't. I am not who I am because of who I sleep with.
Sorry that I offend you so much. Really, before you judge me, get to know me. BEfore you tell me to get involved with gay and lesbian people know who you are talking with. Have you sat holding a person dieing of aids? Have you cried with the families that lost a family member due to suicide? Well I have.
Life is crap sometimes, but thankfully there is hope in this dark world. Pick up the book Blue like Jazz...a good read.

Mark D. Snyder said...

Kenny: " Who said that if you are a boy and playing with barbie dolls or putting on your mom's shoes make you gay?"

Actually James Dobson of Focus On The Family did say that on his web site family.org. It got so much attention that huffingtonpost.com posted it and thousands of outraged people posted comments about it. He has since taken down this tips for parents to prevent homosexuality in their children.

Anonymous said...

Ex gay youth blogs

Chad Thompson is leading the fight

for ex gay Youth!

http://www.xanga.com/Radioman55

kenny said...

As I said previously...I am not affiliated with the United States christian right movement. I have not read or listened to a lot of what is going on. This does not make me unaware of what God is doing in the heart and minds of many people. I have been to a couple of ex gay meetings and recently just came back from one and was again, encouraged by the love and faith of people who desire the heart and passion of Christ.
As I read the comment by the person who sent all the information about science and the genetic background and the big brother effect, I was struck by the wording. If you read it, it is all speculation. It is theory and not conclusive research. You say that Focus on the family has not replicated their data...well neither has the pro gay scientist's replicated their data. Nothing is conclusive. Even if they did find a "gay gene", I would still look at what Christ for my example. I believe that we all will stand one day and have to account for everything we say and do...that is humbling. Be it gossipers, those who hate, those who spread lies and cheat, those who take advantage of children, those who are sexually immoral. We are all linked up together. We live in a fallen state. Look at our world. Wars, fighting, lack of looking out for our neighbour. Since when did we look past our own injustice and look at how we could help our neighbour. If we really want to see injustice stop, let us love each other. Sure this could be concieved as a KUMBAYAish approach, but what the hell. It couldn't hurt. What does it mean to live in community? What does it mean to live beside someone who thinks differently that you? It means eating together. It means talking, taking an interest. I don't care if you want to live as a gay or lesbian, or transgendered or bisexual. I just want the freedom to worship and praise my God. I want to live side by side those in my community. I want to break bread with them, talk with them, form friendships with them. Enough hatred. The gays think the christian rights hate them, the christian right group thinks the gays hate them...let's show each other by example. If those who are pro gay want to change the world, it won't be with protests or spewing hatred. If the ex gays want to change the world it won't be with protests ir spewing hatred. It will be with dialoguing together. It will be with talking with one another and forming friendships despite differing opinions. Let's wake up! Come on!

DirtyHarryY2K said...

To James the Queer Communist/terrorist


The term "homophobia" is a made-up term, created by the homo-nazis to try and make wrong the hundreds of millions of people throughout the world who are appalled and disgusted by the morally insane sexually psychotic alternative lifestyles promoted by them.

It indicates a "fear" of sexual perversion. One does not have to "fear" dog crap to not want to play with it or eat it on in general oppose those that do.

Creatures such as yourself, who (feebly) attempt to attack those of us who speak out against moral insanity, do nothing except show the level to which you have sunk in your own personal morals and ethics.

The ignorant will stay so until they learn. My effort is to stand up for decency, morality and ethical standards, and I do so simply by providing the reality of truth, ethics and the morals which founded this country.

If you are adverse to these morals, I recommend you move to a more "liberal" locale, such as Canada, France, Norway, Netherlands, Spain or Sweden. I'm told that their Permissive Socialistic governments are quite willing to tolerate the various psychosis inherent in both sexual psychotics and the morally insane lower forms of life which grant them credence.

Adam Kautz said...

Dirty harry, you are the one who is the abomination. You and your sociopatchic christian "friends".

Adam Kautz said...

oh and besides that what are you doing on a gay website, probably you are secretly gay and don't want anyone to know.

Anonymous said...

To dirtyharry the ignorant, dim witted bigiot

Since when is bigiotry and intolerance a moral value worthy of maintaining in our society. The psychology medical board has taken homosexuality off their mental disorder list and replaced it with homophobia. This is the disease that you have and in need of immediate treatment.